Socrates explaining """greek""" gods

[zeus10]

http://www.worldwideschool.org/libra...lus/chap7.html

Cratylus by Plato translated by B. Jowett

SOCRATES:

Demeter is e didousa meter, who gives food like a mother; Here is the lovely one (erate)--for Zeus, according to tradition, loved and married her; possibly also the name may have been given when the legislator was thinking of the heavens, and may be only a disguise of the air (aer), putting the end in the place of the beginning. You will recognize the truth of this if you repeat the letters of Here several times over. People dread the name of Pherephatta as they dread the name of Apollo,--and with as little reason; the fear, if I am not mistaken, only arises from their ignorance of the nature of names. But they go changing the name into Phersephone, and they are terrified at this; whereas the new name means only that the Goddess is wise (sophe); for seeing that all things in the world are in motion (pheromenon), that principle which embraces and touches and is able to follow them, is wisdom. And therefore the Goddess may be truly called Pherepaphe (Pherepapha), or some name like it, because she touches that which is in motion (tou pheromenon ephaptomene), herein showing her wisdom. And Hades, who is wise, consorts with her, because she is wise. They alter her name into Pherephatta now-a-days, because the present generation care for euphony more than truth. There is the other name, Apollo, which, as I was saying, is generally supposed to have some terrible signification. Have you remarked this fact?

HERMOGENES:

To be sure I have, and what you say is true.

SOCRATES:

But the name, in my opinion, is really most expressive of the power of the God.

HERMOGENES:

How so?

SOCRATES:

I will endeavour to explain, for I do not believe that any single name could have been better adapted to express the attributes of the God, embracing and in a manner signifying all four of them,--music, and prophecy, and medicine, and archery.

HERMOGENES:

That must be a strange name, and I should like to hear the explanation.

SOCRATES:

Say rather an harmonious name, as beseems the God of Harmony. In the first place, the purgations and purifications which doctors and diviners use, and their fumigations with drugs magical or medicinal, as well as their washings and lustral sprinklings, have all one and the same object, which is to make a man pure both in body and soul.

HERMOGENES:

Very true.

SOCRATES:

And is not Apollo the purifier, and the washer, and the absolver from all impurities?
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This is a dialog betwen Socrates and his student(hermogenes). (Althought I beleive too many mistakes done during interpretation by B. Jowett) the dialog shows one interesting truth: The ancient ""greeks"" couldnt understand the meaning of the names of ""their"" gods.

The funny thing is that even the ""greek"" Socrates when explains the meaning of the name AFRODITE says:

"...Aphrodite, born of the foam (aphros), may be fairly accepted ....."

doesnt take the responsability to accept this meaning so he adds:

"....on the authority of Hesiod...."

The dialog is interesting and it clearly shows that the """"greeks"""" didnt give the names to their """gods""".

[Sociologica]

Originally Posted by zeus10

http://www.worldwideschool.org/libra...lus/chap7.html

Cratylus by Plato translated by B. Jowett

SOCRATES:

Demeter is e didousa meter, who gives food like a mother; Here is the lovely one (erate)--for Zeus, according to tradition, loved and married her; possibly also the name may have been given when the legislator was thinking of the heavens, and may be only a disguise of the air (aer), putting the end in the place of the beginning. You will recognize the truth of this if you repeat the letters of Here several times over. People dread the name of Pherephatta as they dread the name of Apollo,--and with as little reason; the fear, if I am not mistaken, only arises from their ignorance of the nature of names. But they go changing the name into Phersephone, and they are terrified at this; whereas the new name means only that the Goddess is wise (sophe); for seeing that all things in the world are in motion (pheromenon), that principle which embraces and touches and is able to follow them, is wisdom. And therefore the Goddess may be truly called Pherepaphe (Pherepapha), or some name like it, because she touches that which is in motion (tou pheromenon ephaptomene), herein showing her wisdom. And Hades, who is wise, consorts with her, because she is wise. They alter her name into Pherephatta now-a-days, because the present generation care for euphony more than truth. There is the other name, Apollo, which, as I was saying, is generally supposed to have some terrible signification. Have you remarked this fact?

HERMOGENES:

To be sure I have, and what you say is true.

SOCRATES:

But the name, in my opinion, is really most expressive of the power of the God.

HERMOGENES:

How so?

SOCRATES:

I will endeavour to explain, for I do not believe that any single name could have been better adapted to express the attributes of the God, embracing and in a manner signifying all four of them,--music, and prophecy, and medicine, and archery.

HERMOGENES:

That must be a strange name, and I should like to hear the explanation.

SOCRATES:

Say rather an harmonious name, as beseems the God of Harmony. In the first place, the purgations and purifications which doctors and diviners use, and their fumigations with drugs magical or medicinal, as well as their washings and lustral sprinklings, have all one and the same object, which is to make a man pure both in body and soul.

HERMOGENES:

Very true.

SOCRATES:

And is not Apollo the purifier, and the washer, and the absolver from all impurities?
.................................................. ...............................
.................................................. ...............................

This is a dialog betwen Socrates and his student(hermogenes). (Althought I beleive too many mistakes done during interpretation by B. Jowett) the dialog shows one interesting truth: The ancient ""greeks"" couldnt understand the meaning of the names of ""their"" gods.

The funny thing is that even the ""greek"" Socrates when explains the meaning of the name AFRODITE says:

"...Aphrodite, born of the foam (aphros), may be fairly accepted ....."

doesnt take the responsability to accept this meaning so he adds:

"....on the authority of Hesiod...."

The dialog is interesting and it clearly shows that the """"greeks"""" didnt give the names to their """gods""".

... and SOCRATES continues:

'Shall I tell you what I suspect to be the true explanation of this and several other words ?. My belief is that they are of foreign origin. For the Hellens, especially those who were under the dominion of the Barbarians, OFTEN BOROWED from them ... You know that, anyone who seeks to demonstrate the fitness of these names according to the Hellenic language, and not according to the language from which the words are derived, is rather likely to be at fault'.

(and that, logically, includes Socrates himself, too)

[zeus10]

Originally Posted by Sociologica

... and SOCRATES continues:

'Shall I tell you what I suspect to be the true explanation of this and several other words ?. My belief is that they are of foreign origin. For the Hellens, especially those who were under the dominion of the Barbarians, OFTEN BOROWED from them'.

Exactly; OFTEN BOROWED from the """"""""""barbarians"""""""""".

[_AuLoNa_]

Very interesting zeus, welcome back..

But how come we were called the barbarians, what were they, that came to another land.

[zeus10]

Originally Posted by _AuLoNa_

Very interesting zeus, welcome back..

But how come we were called the barbarians, what were they, that came to another land.

Barbarians means "not native greek speakers" because culturally.... you know who was the real barbarians. The only thing that is similar to modern greeks compared to ancient ones is that: After borrowing things from the others they claim as theirs. At this point the modern greeks are exactly like the ancient ones(ex Fustanella, or polyphonic song etc, etc, etc, etc). Other than that they are two very different "universes".

[zeus10]

I will give only one example who are these "barbarians"

Sokrates:Here is the lovely one (erate)--for Zeus, according to tradition, loved and married her; possibly also the name may have been given when the legislator was thinking of the heavens, and may be only a disguise of the air (aër),


In what language the "air" is called "aër"?????
In what language a mad, crazy, windy(like Zeus's wife when was angry) is called "erë"????
Perhaps you know....

[_AuLoNa_]

Thank you, very interesting.

[shkodran gangster]

Even the romans called everybody barbaric (everybody outside their country, and the ones who are not roman)

Very interesting information, you have more of this.

[zeus10]

Originally Posted by shkodran gangster

Even the romans called everybody barbaric (everybody outside their country, and the ones who are not roman)

Very interesting information, you have more of this.

Here is explained very well why Afrodite(Afro dita=ylli i mengjesit) does NOT mean "borned from foam".

[armendvisoka]

This is very interesting. Thanks for this Zeus!